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Saturday, September 13, 2025

Binding Combat Turns With Time in a Round

(J.A.S. 15th Level Paladin "Alancrost" by J.A.S.)

"But with regard to the material world, we can at least go so far as this — we can perceive that events are brought about not by insulated interpositions of Divine power, exerted in each particular case, but by the establishment of general laws."  
Whewell: Bridgewater Treatise.
 
The abstraction of time in a 5th edition combat round reared it's ugly head when the Reaver intended to blow a horn sounding alarm and J.A.S. wanted to know how much time his PC had to stop it. 5th edition combat rounds combatant turns (apart from a reaction) each fully occur prior to the subsequent actions of the next combatant's turn in initiative order.

On the one hand a result of taking full-round turns sequentially in order, rather simultaneous turns, is that game play is easier. The counter-intuitive abstraction is that there is potentially an infinite amount of time within each 6 second round bounded only by the number of combatants taking turns that round (i.e. in our combat with the Reavers the first combat round there were 13 sequential 6-second periods, 6 PCs + 7 Reavers, in total 78 sequential seconds of combat turns had elapsed). The rules abstract the turns as simultaneous, however there is no simultaneous effect.

I have been working on assigning time duration to actions/movement/bonus actions/extra attacks using 3-second half-rounds to reintroduce a combat round being governed by time and the idea of simultaneity to combatants' turns within a round.

Below are my ideas I was intending to introduce first in my in-person Wilderlands game, but since these ideas were briefly touched on by J.A.S. during our combat Saturday night, perhaps we'll attempt the  new rules first in Psychedelic Deadlands / Dreamer of Dreams campaign (or not, Dr. John PhD is DMing the next 2 sessions for October and November).

Tony "Hawklord" in his blog "The Cryptic Archivist" writes how ideas for D&D to abstract time in combat have been a source of debate between Midwest and West Coast D&D from since the earliest days of the game.

"D&D evolved from wargame rules by members of the Castle & Crusade Society, founded by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz as a chapter of the International Federation of Wargaming, itself founded by Gygax, Scott Duncan and Bill Speer in 1966. These gamers got together around a sand table (usually in Gary's basement) ordering miniature armies into mock battles. Abstract combat was simple and made sense.

"Conversely, the [Society for Creative Anachronism] was founded in Berkeley in 1966 with armored members going outside to fight mock battles with padded weapons. Their point of view was not that of a military commander with a bird's eye view of battle, but as a common soldier who has felt the heft of their shield and the sting of a (padded) sword. Combat seems abstract if you aren't the one fighting. The reenactors saw something missing in abstract combat and created their own rules and games to fill those gaps."

Anyhow, here is my take thus far...
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Rounds are an abstraction of 6 seconds.

During combat in the 5th edition (2024 revision) of the World’s Most Popular Role-Playing Game here is how a 6-second round of a combatant’s turn is divided:
  • Action (cost is 3 seconds)
  • Movement (cost is 3 seconds)
  • Brief Communication (cost is 0 seconds, duration is less than 6 seconds)
  • Interact with 1 object or feature of the environment (cost is 0 seconds)
  • Ready Action/Movement (cost is 0 seconds)
  • Bonus Action (cost is generally 0 seconds, duration is 1 second or less)
  • Reaction (happens outside of your turn)
We can discern that within a round an action and a movement are each equal to a duration of 3 seconds. This is because movement permits you to move up to a distance equal to your speed in 3 seconds, and the action "dash" permits you an extra move up to a distance equal to your speed in 3 seconds.

However, movement is different than an action such that while you can take an action for additional movement, a combatant cannot substitute an additional action from not moving.

There is a quality of reconnaissance to movement.

During the movement phase of your round regardless whether you are actually moving, you are also making an effort to locate enemies (and allies) and to ascertain strategic features of the combat. Even if you do not move at all, it takes 3 seconds from within a round to a round to evaluate your strategic situation within a combat round.

Dividing 6 seconds generally into a 3-second movement and a 3-second action, we must consider what happens to that time when bonus actions and extra attacks occur.

I suggest that a bonus action takes 1 second at any time during the 6-second round while the gaining of an extra attack takes 1 second from the 3-second action phase.

Inserting a bonus action into a 6-second round requires some additional time, but seems would overlay movement and action rather than interfere with them. I considered many different bonus actions to arrive at this conclusion.

Some classes permit extra attacks at higher levels which historically would fit within that same amount of time for an attack action, with the inference that you attack faster.

Each individual combatant rolls for initiative on a d20 (an exception for a group of identical monsters who roll one d20 as a group), then adds their Dexterity Modifier.

The number difference between the highest initiative score and the lower scores determines the second in the initial round when each combatant begins their particular turn. Each 5 points a combatant’s initiative score is less than the highest initiative score results in beginning their turn 1 second later that the highest initiative score. (For example, at 5-9 points below, that combatant begins their first turn 1 second after the combatant with the highest initiative score; at 10-14 points below, begins their turn 2 second later; at 15-19 points below, 3 seconds later; etc.)

Where multiple combatants can act in the same second, compare actual initiative scores and the highest acts first. If actual initiative scores tie, the combatant’s dexterity ability score is the tie-breaker.

Rounds would be managed in 3-second half-rounds, rather than full 6-second rounds.

By breaking down the round by seconds, and then assigning a staggered starting second based on initiative, combatants actions can be arguably more simultaneous. The order of turns in a round is actually bound by time as overlapping sequential rounds instead of time having been bounded artificially by all the sequential turns in the round.

In their given 3-second half round a combatant may:
  • Take an action (with or without a bonus action or extra attack); or
  • Make a full movement (with or without a bonus action); or
  • Make a partial movement and begin or conclude an action (with or without a bonus action or extra attack). 
However, because of staggered starting seconds within the initial round, a combatant may not have a full 3 seconds in their initial half round (or even, if a combatant rolls particularly poor versus the highest initiative score, lose the entire first half round and perhaps seconds from the second half round). 

This would be similar to "surprise" (ha, especially if a combatant rolled very poorly on initiative), but more accurately could be assessed as the amount of time for a combatant to react in an attack.

Saturday, September 6, 2025

A Cascade of D&D

Ha, so all our games were not drug and alcohol infused debauchery.

Technically speaking, our first game system was from the Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set by J. Eric Holmes. Holmes uses a very simple weapon speed system - Daggers get 2 blows per round, long swords 1, and 2-handed swords 1 every 2 rounds. When the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook came out the summer of 1978 we naturally assumed the 'speed factor' of weapons indicated the number of segments within a round it took to wield any particular weapon.

There was no AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide until sometime during the summer of 1979, and I don’t believe I ever read that book straight through. We just began using the updated to-hit and saving through tables, magic items and such, but never got into the nitty-gritty for what we thought we already knew. (Ha, except Dr. John PhD may have tried to explain the DMs Guide version of speed factor, lo by then the drugs were beginning to kick in.)

Pre-Blipping Campaign Dr. John PhD ran our 8th grade Greyhawk campaign from the formal dining table in John's family’s front room. I began to DM some when we hit high school and at the same time began branching out into the Wilderlands of High Fantasy City State of the Invincible Overlord campaign and started integrating the Arduin Grimoire original trilogy into our rules. (We also I think never played at John's again, his mom had a better nose than mine for weed!)

Our D&D combat was FAST, segment by segment actions with multitudes of attacks per 1-minute rounds. Often decisions had to be made in half a melee round or less.

Post Blipping Campaign we never quite attained our old style of play. Ha, #1 was because previously we were not plying rules-as-written (the DMs Guide strangely only used speed factor for initiative). But also, #2, because 3e, 3.5, and 5e (including most all of the reputed “Advanced” retro clones) were based on a style of play where AD&D was cropped onto the Moldvey/Cook BX D&D or the Mentzer BECMI which did away with segments of melee rounds and used only gross action and gross movement.

Rather than our simulation where actions were subjugated to TIME, i.e. the clock would be ticking and the PCs and monsters had to fit their possible and variable duration-based actions within the confines of the passing seconds, the new versions has time subjugated to the ACTIONS of each participant, i.e. everyone gets their move and their attack and at that moment 6 seconds (or 10 seconds depending on the version) duration had passed.

A rundown of our main campaigns pre-Blipping Campaign were:

    • Dr. John PhD’s “Greyhawk” (1977-1982) – Pretty much centered in the Pomarj, we went through most all the classic AD&D modules: Hommlet, the Giants and Descent into the Depth of the Earth series, White Plume Mountain, Tomb of Horrors. This campaign ended after we graduated high school when Dr. John headed of to UC Santa Barbara to become a chemist.
    • Matrox Lusch & Others “Wilderlands of High Fantasy” (1979-1984) – I piggy backed several T$R modules like the giant series, but also ran Tegal Manor, Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor, Dark Tower, all 3 city states (Invincible Overlord, World Emperor, and Tarantis) as part of my main campaign. I also ran the some of the Judges Guild one-offs like Citadel of Fire, Sword of Hope, and Under the Storm Giant’s Castle. The Wilderlands was somewhat of a shared campaign as my brother Sumerled ran Modron and Verbosh and our friend Spacin Jason would run the Arguin dungeons there. In 1982 Judges Guild lost their license to publish “official” AD&D materials and started to use this “Universal” format which was a pain in the ass. Plus a lot of Judges Guild had been disconnected from the Wilderlands setting and sort of silly even before they lost the license.
    • Matrox Lusch “Krull” (1980-1985) – To fill in the gaps of the Wilderlands I would just make things up, ha, with the problem being the monsters would usually “cry uncle” when I was too tired to carry on. So I was accused of “making things up” (true) and also railroading (somewhat true when I was falling asleep in the wee hours). I had written up a dungeon during probably 1979 or so based on the “Pirates of the Caribbean” ride at Disneyland (one of my favorites), and began to spread out from there into other regions of my game world “Krull” (well before the 1983 movie of the same name). Ha, the problem was I still made shit up – I mean it’s D&D and I loved a sandbox and would do these on the fly all the time.
    • J.A.S. “Drow Mag-Tec” (1986-1987) – This is seriously as close as I got to the 80s “Satanic Panic” (our group was so insulated we never heard of that at the time). J.A.S.’s wife watched the 700 Club (Jim Bakker & Tammy Fay Bakker) who did a show on the evils of D&D. So his wife wanted J.A.S. to stop playing that evil magic game immediately. John compromised by developing a setting with no other religions besides the Mycretians (a Wilderlands quasi-Christian-type religion) and the main enemies were the Drow who used something called “Mag-Tec” which was basically sci-fi technology. All the characters were fey (our party was a brownie, a pixie, and a leprechaun) so we had a bunch of innate magical abilities, but no spells. Ha, we were all technos.

By the time our Post Blipping campaigns began in 2004 I had sobered up and wondered what happened to all the friends I used to have, so toward the end of 2005 corralled everyone into version 3.5 by anonymously sending them copies of the new Player’s Handbook. (Also, since Dr. John PhD had moved off to Oregon with his Physician wife I was the de facto DM.)

    • Matrox Lusch “High Fantasy” (2005-2011) – This campaign was set in the Wilderlands, but the party did travel around the planes quite a bit. Timewise I don’t think there was any time travel, but I did have the party visit other settings such as Grayhawk and Arduin during different time periods than when campaigns in these settings typically started. Tragically in 2011 we lost our long-time 30-year gaming friend, Postman Bob (and a friend of J.A.S. longer than that). This sad event resulted in the campaign ending as we decided to roll up new characters rather than carry on without Bob. In addition to Wilderlands products, among the other published works I leaned on for this campaign were Red Hand of DoomCity of the Spider Queen, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits“The Lich-Queen’s Beloved” three-magazine Incursion event featured in POLYHEDRON #159, DRAGON #309, and DUNGEON #100. The overarching plot was an attempt by Tharizdun to free itself from Prime Material chains.
    • Matrox Lusch “Blipping 2” (2012-2019) – In this campaign the characters were unstuck in time and space, but it was due to a mysterious orb they discovered (or possibly revealed itself to them) on Sigil, and the orb transported the party around. We also did not rotate DMs in this campaign, but I visited many of the locations and NPCs from our Blipping Campaign. I also developed a set of rules for this campaign that was a blend between v3.5 and AD&D. Fast forward to DunDraCon in 2018, I ran an “official” game where players could bring in any D&D version of a character they wished, hoping folks would bring out some old high-level characters they hadn’t played in years. However, every single player in that game brought a 5th edition character. Then, at our regular game that Saturday night at the Con the group was short a cleric and advertised for one – every interested person brought a 5th edition cleric. The writing, I saw, was on the wall that 5e had settled in as the standard. I put together a hand-crafted 5e adding some modifications such as critical hit tables and psionic abilities and we ran this modified 5th edition for almost 2 years.
    • Various “New Old Weird World” (2019-2023) – I was fortunate to run a character in a scenario Jeff Rients was testing out and had this realization I had not run a character since I became sober 15 years earlier! I kind of overreacted and told my group I wasn’t going to run the campaign solo any more, that I was going to run a character, we were going to rotate DMs, and we were going to run an AD&D retro-clone (we ended up using Advanced Labyrinth Lord with some of my collected mods). This was more truly a Blipping 2 campaign, although we used only single DMs for 3 sessions each. After the campaign surviving through Coved that campaign took a hiatus when we had all kinds of troubles getting the group together, and were missing some fun players like Sumerled and Random Addison who were extremely opposed to online D&D games. These are the characters I am running (in-person) my End of Time Extravaganza for up at J.A.S.’s mountain abode next October 27, 2025. 

And now I've ended up co-DMing and DMing two 5th edition (2024) campaigns: The Psychedelic Deadlands / Dreamer of Dreams campaign online with Dr. John PhD, and the new "5th Iteration Wilderlands" in-person campaign.

My next task is to understand how I can break down the variety of things folks can do in a 5th edition melee round, and to see if I can get the game subject to time again rather than time subject to the actions. Perhaps it's a difference with no meaning - but I am digging in. It has been almost 15 years since we all last played an official Dungeons & Dragons RAW. Until next week I hope you go easy.